Curse

Saphrium · Oct 13, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Character: Mori Rivers
Build Type: Alliance Battle

Critical Strike 12+1+1
Dagger Mastery 11+1
Shadow Arts 5+1
(Not accurate but you can tweak it.)

Black Lotus Strike
Twisting Fangs
Falling Spider
Horn of the Ox
Mark of Instability
Shadow Refuge
Shadow of Haste
Aura of Displacement[E]

Shrouded Armor
20% penatration Enchant and Stance +30 Health Daggers

At least 1/3 of the damage comes from Twisting Fangs & Falling Spider degen
Double attacks can be switched or reversed depending on situation
Black Lotus for energy management
Shadow of Haste to increase mobility, offensive or defensive, timed correctly, it could be a great teleport skill between shrines
Aura of Displacement for kiters, pinpoint MMs & Monks.

Yanman.be · Oct 13, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

13 critical strikes will do.

IMO AoD is a bit wasted...either just go aod-gps, or moi-bls

But both AoD and bls, it's a bit..overkill.

But, it'll work, I guess..

SAPhoenix · Oct 13, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

He did mention it was for AB, so DP won't apply.

Saphrium, rather drop AoD and add a cancel stance for Shadow of Haste. At least then you'll have more control over it (In terms of defense, not mobility).

Maybe you could drop Shadow Refuge and opt for an elite like Palm Strike? Considering that your Critical Strikes is at 14, you'll be doing 80 armor ignoring damage. Use that at the end of your combo and you've got a great spike. Besides, with a stance cancel for Haste, if the going gets tough, you'll always have a way out, so Shadow Refuge isn't really needed. The other nice thing about Palm Strike is that if Black Lotus doesn't connect, you could start your combo with Palm Strike.

Also, AoD isn't going to help you against kiters. It will help you to get the drop on unsuspecting targets, but it won't prevent kiting.

Saphrium · Oct 13, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Yeah...I came up with this build about 1/2 year ago...now ppl in AB started to copy it...

By using Shadow of Haste and Aura of Displacement, I can get daggers' damage boost and 15% speed boost at all times. Have two ways to teleport based on the situation. Have one 90% guaranteed knock downs, if not two. Degen/Deep Woud/Poison Damages are extended to the max.

I used Black Lotus because of energy management, Palm Strike just don't give enough energy to use other skills. And since Energy Mgm is at first hit, I can determine right away if I need to stay fighting or AoD out.

It goes like this: Keep Haste up -- Mark of instability -- Aura of Displacement -- Black Lotus --Twisting Fangs (first KD) -- Falling Spider -- Horn of the Ox(Second KD, reverse dual attack order if Mark is removed)-- AoD out and we got a dead person. The degen during the KDs with Deep Wound/Bleed/Poison are about 6 seconds, plus the Black Lotus damage, I think it makes up to Palm Strike + Energy Regen.

I can pretty much outrun anyone, stance cancel moves will teleport me to safe location, and I can remove my enchant to get back to where I was.

There are many more I can do with this build. But the basic idea is to kill with shortest time possible, enemy has lowest possibility to survive yet endure self with speed and teleportation.

Tozen · Oct 14, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

1: Your lead attack has a ridiculous recharge time... so I would swap it out for unsuspecting strike or jagged strike.
2: There is no reason to have mark of instability when you're using horns of the ox anyways. I assume that you had this for black lotus strike... well, we've already gotten rid of that so put in an off-hand instead lol

Other than that, seems like a pretty standard Ox-Spider build ... which I'll agree IS a lot of fun

tortugan · Oct 14, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

I've been playing that build for over 2 months now(didn't know it was on a forum somewhere) and liking it, tho I didn't use SoH but dark escape

SAPhoenix · Oct 14, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphrium

By using Shadow of Haste and Aura of Displacement, I can get daggers' damage boost and 15% speed boost at all times. Have two ways to teleport based on the situation.

You'll get the damage boost but you really don't need 2 teleports. Haste will help you with kiters and with a stance cancel, you'll always have a way out. Thus, having AoD and Shadow of Haste doesn't provide that much more of an advantage. Rather swap out for other daggers and replace AoD with something else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphrium

I used Black Lotus because of energy management, Palm Strike just don't give enough energy to use other skills. And since Energy Mgm is at first hit, I can determine right away if I need to stay fighting or AoD out.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. What I meant was if you don't hit with Black Lotus, the option is always there to start your combo with Palm Strike. I'm not saying Palm Strike should always be used as your starter, just that it can be used if Black Lotus doesn't connect. Once again, you can teleport out with Haste using a cancel for it. You don't need AoD for this build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphrium

I can pretty much outrun anyone, stance cancel moves will teleport me to safe location, and I can remove my enchant to get back to where I was.

That's just the thing. With your build as it currently is, you have no stance cancel move (apart from using another Haste to cancel, which won't teleport you to safety).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozen

1: Your lead attack has a ridiculous recharge time... so I would swap it out for unsuspecting strike or jagged strike.
2: There is no reason to have mark of instability when you're using horns of the ox anyways. I assume that you had this for black lotus strike... well, we've already gotten rid of that so put in an off-hand instead lol

Tozen, 20 seconds is hardly a ridiculous recharge time, especially in an AB environment (Consider how long the recharge for Black Lotus was BEFORE it got buffed. THAT was a ridiculous recharge time). The hex that Saph is using is also 20 seconds, kinda makes it ideal. Besides, in AB, you aren't ALWAYS attacking something. Most of the time you're mobile, moving from cap point to cap point with your team mates, eliminating the odd threat here and there when you encounter it. And trust me, waiting 20 seconds for Black Lotus to recharge in AB is nothing.

Yes, there is a reason to have Mark of Instability, even when you're using Horns. Two knockdowns leaves your opponent with less of a chance to recover or retaliate. You're applying bleeding, deep wound and poison while interrupting your opponent twice by knocking them down. Mark of Instability is definitely key to this build.

Saphrium · Oct 14, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

I had problems running up to a crippleshot or a mesmer before, plus it is kind of obvious what I was going to do. AoD seems to be the solution, it serves as a warp in and warp out.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

Yanman.be · Oct 14, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

He did mention it was for AB, so DP won't apply.

I'm stupid

Tozen · Oct 14, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Yes, there is a reason to have Mark of Instability, even when you're using Horns. Two knockdowns leaves your opponent with less of a chance to recover or retaliate. You're applying bleeding, deep wound and poison while interrupting your opponent twice by knocking them down. Mark of Instability is definitely key to this build.

Ok, after trying it again, I'll give you this one. However, I still think that making black lotus your only lead into your combo is going to cause problems.

Personally, in AB I like to instantly kill one guy and immediately move onto the next. When I tried this build, I teleported in, killed the guy with the double knockdown as you suggested, and then WAITED for 20 seconds until the next guy.

I'm not trying to be a jerk... this build works. However, I don't think it's worth it personally. (Just feedback)

Saphrium · Oct 14, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

When in a mob, I prefer to survive while fighting in a crowd rather than respawn, that's why I use AoD and tele out, sort out the priority and pick out the next vital target, if you like, you can replace it with Flourish or Moebius Strike which I did try before, and reverse the dual attacks since mark of instab won't recharge. But I guess my point is, survival is one of my main concerns, that's why I put energy management in first hit, to determine target's anti melee ability and the chances to successfully kill him. During the recharge time I usually find a refuge running from our mob and just perform normal attacks, even i lost the AoD, still have the 15% weapon mod cause of shadow of haste +15% speed boost.

Yanman.be · Oct 14, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozen

Ok, after trying it again, I'll give you this one. However, I still think that making black lotus your only lead into your combo is going to cause problems.

Personally, in AB I like to instantly kill one guy and immediately move onto the next. When I tried this build, I teleported in, killed the guy with the double knockdown as you suggested, and then WAITED for 20 seconds until the next guy.

I'm not trying to be a jerk... this build works. However, I don't think it's worth it personally. (Just feedback)

This is what makes the Yanssassin a pretty ok build... 2 knockdowns, deep wound, bleeding, poison, moebius strike ( allows hoto to kd again ) and shock ( so 4 kd's in total ). Kd's are snares, interrupts and combo makers all in one. I wub MoI.

Saphrium · Oct 20, 2006, 08:16 AM // 08:16

You are...advertising your own build here?

l Artemis Entreri l · Oct 20, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

lol....what a jerk......in a controlled environment..ur build might be ok yan but......7 atk skills??hmm.......and UR talking about overkill...

Yanman.be · Oct 20, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphrium

You are...advertising your own build here?

We use the same dagger attacks, except for Moebius Strike. But your build is AB only, while mine is more versatile, and vulnerable to kiters and such.

Hyunsai · Oct 20, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

He did mention it was for AB, so DP won't apply.

What is DP?

SAPhoenix · Oct 20, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

DP is Death Penalty.

SAPhoenix · Oct 20, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

DP is Death Penalty.

SAPhoenix · Oct 20, 2006, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Whoa... dunno why that happened?!

Zuzubee · Oct 20, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

I dont really see the point of AoD in AB. I think you would get far more out of another elite like flourish. You already have a constant speed increase and two knockdowns, its just superfluous to the rest of the build.